Emergent Strategy & Adaptive Leadership with Gina Gomez - EP 054

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Leadership isn’t about control—it’s about alignment, intention, and trust. In this episode, I sit down with Gina Gomez to explore how emergent strategy and adaptive leadership can transform the way we run our businesses and live our lives. Gina opens up about how grief reshaped her professional path, and how her approach now blends metaphysical transformation with practical business strategy. Together, we talk about the value of intentionality over rigid planning, and why inner work is non-negotiable for outer success. This conversation is a powerful reminder that leadership isn't about controlling outcomes—it’s about creating space for alignment, growth, and meaningful impact. If you're navigating business with heart and purpose, this one's for you.

Episode Takeaways:

• Adaptability is key to sustainable strategy.
• Core values should be the foundation of leadership.
• Integrity creates trust and alignment in business.
• Emergent strategy supports flexibility and responsiveness.
• Intentional planning is more powerful than rigid goals.
• Small decisions can create major ripple effects.
• Inner work fuels outer business results.
• Inclusive leadership includes creating opportunities and space for others.
• Empowerment and honest communication build strong teams. 

Key Insights:

“When it comes to emergent strategy, you want to see what's coming up. And that's where the adaptability, the creativity, the evolution, and the strategy comes into place. Because then you can shift strategy.” — Gina Gomez

“There's more than one way to get to an end goal. It's figuring out what's the right way for you and making sure that you understand that there is more than one way and that you don't have to just choose one and stay in it and be miserable because that's the one that you chose. You still get to make some decisions and have some flexibility.” — Gina Gomez

“Emergent strategy applies to the choices we make on a daily basis for ourselves. This applies to our business operations, to everything that we're doing. It involves listening to ourselves, following our intuition and allowing things to evolve instead of sticking to a regimented plan.” — Rachel Anzalone

“All of those micro decisions have an impact on the bigger picture of your business. All of those small choices, those small changes ultimately have a long-term effect, even if they might seem inconsequential in the moment.” — Rachel Anzalone

Question for Your Reflection:

Where in your business are you holding onto rigid plans that no longer serve your vision?

Resource Mentioned:

• Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown 

Connect with Gina Gomez:

• https://aristamanagementgroup.com/

Connect With Me:

• Email: [email protected]
• Instagram: @RachelAnzalone
• Facebook: Rachel.Anzalone
• LinkedIn: RachelAnzalone

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Episode Transcript

Gina Gomez (00:00)

“And you want to know what I think that is, that whole idea of you do A, B, and C and you'll get D, it’s marketing. If I sell you a simple outcome, you can simply give me your money and we're all going to be great. But the truth is, an ideal world, I do believe that happens for some people, but for the majority of people, that is not true. And it is a marketing thing because when you buy into the dream, then you get everything else that comes with it.”

 

Rachel Anzalone (01:03)

Hello, and welcome to Pleasure and Profits. I'm your host, Rachel Anzalone. And today we're diving into a conversation that bridges intuitive wisdom with cutting edge business strategy. As we've been talking about all season, the old models of rigid planning and top-down leadership are breaking down around us. What's emerging in their place is something more organic, adaptive, and deeply connected to natural patterns of growth and change. 

My guest today is someone who's been quietly revolutionizing how visionary leaders approach business strategy for over two decades. Gina Gomez is the founder and leadership strategist behind Arista Management Group, where she guides creative entrepreneurs, executives, and mission-driven companies in building businesses that are profitable, people first, and built to last. 

What makes Gina's approach so unique is how she weaves together strategic business insight with what her clients describe as metaphysical transformation. Her work honors both the practical realities of running a successful business and the deeper calling that drives visionary leaders. Today, we're exploring the concept of emergent strategy in business. We'll dive into how small values-driven actions can create massive transformation, why adaptation might be more important than planning, and how the inner work of leadership becomes the foundation for outer business success.

If you've ever felt the tension between doing what's expected in business and following your deeper wisdom, or you're curious about how to build a company that honors both profitability and your values, this conversation will offer you both inspiration and practical tools. Get ready for a rich discussion about the future of leadership, the power of small actions to create large changes, and what it really means to build a business that serves not just your bottom line, but your soul's calling and the greater good. Let's dive in.

 

Rachel Anzalone (02:52)

Welcome to Pleasure and Profits, Gina. I'm so excited to have you here.

 

Gina Gomez (02:56)

I am so excited to be here. This is gonna be a fun conversation.

 

Rachel Anzalone (02:59)

It is, I'm sure of it. I would love to start by having you share a little bit about your own journey. Like, how did your life and business experiences emerge into the work that you're doing right now?

 

Gina Gomez (03:11)

That's such a big question. So the short version is I worked in corporate America for many years. I took a traditional route, learned a lot about discipline, accountability, red tape, function and dysfunction in environments. And when it was time for me to change my life and it was through the passing of my dad, when my dad passed away, I knew I wanted to create some different patterns, different lifestyle and just do things differently. Grief will do that for you.

I decided to start my own business, but I didn't know what I was gonna do. I didn't know how I was gonna do it. I knew what was important to me, what my values were. I knew the kind of people that I wanted to work with. I had a feel, I knew how I wanted to feel when I was doing the work. I didn't have it figured out of this is what I do and this is how I do it and this is what I charge. was none of that, which was hard for me because I'm very much like, I like to make decisions. I'd like to have clarity and then I like to go do things. So I think the biggest thing I learned in that process that I keep in mind in everything I do now is that we talk about the things that are important in business and it's great that we do that. What we don't talk about is all of the things that come up while we're trying to build a business that have nothing to do with business. Like our limiting beliefs, our insecurities, our valid insecurities. Not all of them are valid, but then there are some valid insecurities, but also taking accountability for those things and saying, now what do I want to do with that? So for me, it wasn't a straight line of, okay, I do A, then I do B, and then I'm making money and everything is great. 

For me, it was, I do A, and then it was like, oh you have some stuff to work on. It was like, this is so frustrating. And then it'd be like, OK, I've worked through that. And they'd be like, oh but what about this? And what about this? So it felt a little bit like metaphorically like a hard teacher, like an invisible hard teacher that was constantly like, do it again, do it better, do it differently. What about this? What about that? 

And then once I started to figure out my rhythm and started to see what kept coming up for me and how I was working through it, I started to see opportunity after opportunity after opportunity because I realized if this was happening to me it was probably happening to other people. That's when it got really fun because then I realized well I can teach the model of here's what every business needs but that's not how I operate. So it was like why not teach people what they need so that they can understand that whatever they want to create they can actually do if they have the support behind them.

 

Rachel Anzalone (05:36)

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I said we're going to agree on everything, probably, as we talk, because we're so aligned in our approaches. And I think this is such an important thing for people to hear, is that it's not a linear path for most of us. And because often what we hear are these sort of success stories, like I did this, and then this, and then here I am at the end of this road with all the rainbows in the pot of gold. 

And what we don't hear often from people is the two steps forward, one step back, sometimes three steps back that happens again and again along the way. And I know that's been my experience too, very similar to yours. 

And I think one of the things that we run into as entrepreneurs is, especially if you've come from a corporate background, is trying to find the place where the experience that you have and the things that you learned there intersect with the values that you have and then how you're going to bring that to life in your own business or in your case, in my case, in helping other people with their businesses because there is sort of this idea out there that there's like a way and a blueprint. And if you follow this, if you follow these steps, then you'll get there too when in reality it's kind of unique for everybody.

 

Gina Gomez (07:09)

Well, and you want to know what I think that is, that whole idea of you do A, B, and C and you'll get D, it's marketing. If I sell you a simple outcome, you can simply give me your money and we're all going to be great. But the truth is, an ideal world, I do believe that happens for some people, but for the majority of people, that is not true. And it is a marketing thing because when you buy into the dream, then you get everything else that comes with it. 

Like when I first started people would say like how are you doing after I love corporate? How are you doing? How do, you know, like do you like your business? And I was like I love what I do. I'm living my dream except in my dream I'll make money because I was not. And that was the truth.

 

Rachel Anzalone (08:10)

That's great. 

In terms of the sort of like the blueprint and the sort of promise that if you follow these steps, you'll get the result in the marketing of that. It's one of the reasons that I caution my clients often to, if they're buying coaching, buying process, they're buying it from somebody who's done something besides selling coaching and selling marketing because trying to sell a marketing product is way easier than trying to sell almost anything else, right? Yeah. 

 

Gina Gomez (08:46)

Right. And I think when you start to understand like what is really being sold, you can make more informed decisions and more confident decisions. So when it comes to selling, I often think about when people add a lot of gimmicks in to make it really attractive and it works, right? Like I certainly, like I love a good deal. So you want to sell to me that way? I will fall for it too if it's something that I find value in.

At the same time, I also look at like from my business and the way that I do things, if you are looking for a short term solution, then I am not your answer. But if you want to build longevity and a successful and sustainable business over time, that does give you everything you want, but it's not going to be overnight, then we can have a conversation. If you're looking for short term win, I am not the one.

 

Rachel Anzalone (09:32)

Yeah, high five, high five.

Yeah, absolutely. You talk a lot about core values and about integrity. What do you feel like, well, first of all, how did those factors come into your awareness as being so important? And how do you feel like that intersects with what we're seeing online now and in the business world in terms of people making those promises and selling and whether or not they're really living or in integrity with the messaging that they're sharing out in the world.

 

Gina Gomez (10:08)

Yeah, that's a great question. So for me, where it started was I was a really young kid and my father was a court administrator in LA County. So he ran one of the courts and he reported to the judges and there was a man who was becoming a judge and he was a good friend of my parents. And I remember overhearing my parents talk about him and they said, he has so much integrity. And I was like, what does that word mean? It was maybe seven. 

And at the time, in our family, you never asked how to spell something. You looked it up in the dictionary. Otherwise you were gonna have to pay and you were gonna have to write it down like 25 times. And then I found the dictionary and I looked up the word integrity. And I was like, that's it. That's who I wanna be. I wanna be like this person who, know, like their word being something and their actions being something. And so for me, it guided a lot of, not that I got it right every time. I mean, I was a seven year old kid. So of course I'm gonna make mistakes and do dumb things along the way.

But it was something that always, it was like, always went back to it and it was always a foundational piece for me. So what I started to notice was, well, what if I started to lead from that place in everything I did? How would that impact my life? How would that impact my interactions with other people and my relationships and my work? And then I started to understand and learn more about, you know, leadership and how values play a portion, not just in leadership, but in company values and personal values. 

And what I learned was, companies talk about it a lot, people talk about it a lot, but when you ask somebody, so what are your core values? They go, oh, that's a great question. Yeah, so I have core values. Yeah, what are my core values? Like it goes to that place. 

 

Rachel Anzalone (11:37)

 Let me remember what's written on that page of my website.

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Gina Gomez (12:04)

Exactly, exactly. And so what it tells me is it doesn't necessarily mean that this person doesn't have core values, but they're probably not leading with the core values intentionally, right? 

So you could be like doing the best you can. But then when you go back and you look and go, well, am I checking all the boxes or like in our company, what we do is when we're creating something new, we go through our values. Is it filled with integrity? Does it have, you know, is it transparent? Is it fun? Fun is a very big part of our culture and the way that we do work. Cause my feeling is if I'm not having fun, I'm not doing it. It's really that simple.

So we make sure that everything, like we have a checklist or we go through and make sure that it's checking all those boxes. And if it's not, or we're not in agreement, we go back and say, what do we need to change? So when you start to look at it from that perspective, it also becomes easier where you're not having to go through the checklist every time because it becomes sort of like when you get up and brush your teeth, you don't stop and go, I need to put toothpaste on the toothbrush. You know to do that, right? 

So what I find is that when companies lead from a place of values, it opens them up in so many more ways. In experience and the types of clients that they work with, in the way that they hire, in the way that they experience their day-to-day, their operations, their SOPs, and also their profitability. And that's what, you know, like if you want to do something good in the world, you have to be profitable in order to sustain. And buyers want to know that when they buy from you, that you're going to be around so they can buy from you again. So I think we undervalue values and the importance that it plays in business unless we're truly intentional about it.

 

Rachel Anzalone (13:26)

Yeah, I think so often it's like, I see sort of two things. One is that it's just the values are stated as like a marketing tool, right? It's like these are our brand values, right? And then the other one I see a lot because I work with people who are often like independent operators, like they're an owner operator. They're not necessarily leading a large company. It's like them in a small team and they're the one who's doing, you know, they're like the creator.

And that very often there is a level of like the values are really concrete in their personal life and their personal experience, but they don't know how to translate that or connect that with the way that they're operating their business, right? The bridging those two, I think can be challenging. 

Gina Gomez (14:26)

Right.

 

Rachel Anzalone (14:35)

I remember the first time that I, that I guess the first time that I remember sort of really giving thought to this idea of integrity in terms of values in business was a company that I worked for. It was the first company that I had a leadership role with and the owner said one day like, you know, companies say what their values are and then, but you're never actually like a hundred percent aligned. You're always like somewhere trying to get there, trying to get there, trying to be that. And it's a measurement of how close are you to those values or how far away are you? 

And I started then, I think it was in my early 20s, really looking at things like, am I moving towards my values? Am I trying to live in alignment with those values? Because there's no perfection. And one of the things that I've seen, I'm sure you've seen too, is so often in the launching of a business into the world, in the creation of things, that making a commitment to stay true to those values requires like slowing down and being really intentional, which is sort of the antithesis of what most of us are taught, that it's like the hustle and the grind and you're, you you're just like, go, go, go. And you say yes to everything, right? And then there often comes a point where people have to like put on the brakes and pause and figure out, you know, how they're going to go on.

 

Gina Gomez (15:58)

And also using core values from a place of when you make hard decisions. Like when hard things come up in business, which they always do, it's in the fine print of the brochure, but they always come up. And if you have those core values and you go back to them, they will help you inform and make the decisions for you if you're truly aligned and sticking with your core values. 

And if integrity is one of your core values, also understanding that integrity shows up in lots of different ways. So this was a while ago, I was doing like just revisiting my core values and like, where am I with this? Where am I with that? And I was exploring integrity. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, this is interesting. So integrity means you have to do the hard things too. I'm going to be a good person. I'm going to be ethical. I'm going to be that, but it also means having to take hard actions sometimes.

And one of the things I had realized at the time was that I was working in, I was under contract with a client and I was not happy and I had not been happy. And I was waiting out the contract. I was fulfilling and hitting all my marks. Everything was fine, but I was just not fulfilled. And when I stopped and I was looking at these values, I was like, well, you are not in integrity. So how can you ask other people to be integrity and say that you're modeling it when you are clearly not modeling it by being unhappy?

And it's not fair to somebody else and everybody else who's buying into this because you're not being honest. And it wasn't the thing of like, I had to go say, listen, I'm really unhappy, da da. But it was also an opportunity for me to look and say, how am I holding myself back? How am I holding this client back? And what's the best answer? And once I got clear on everything, I put together a transition plan. I gave notice. We had like 90 days to transition out everything and it worked out fine. 

But that was really hard for me because I am somebody who tends to lead with integrity. I am somebody who takes that very seriously. And then to see where I was out of alignment was not my favorite day, but it was also my favorite day because it was the thing that made me go, well, here's an opportunity. You want to live into your values? Today's the day.

 

Rachel Anzalone (18:16)

Yeah, you said something super interesting, which is that not only were you not doing yourself a service, but you're not doing the client a service. Like how are you holding them back by holding onto this contract when it's not in integrity? And I think that's something that we often don't think about. That's like, you know, maybe you're in an integrity break because you're like, well, I just need to make the money right now or I just, need to wait out this contract or whatever, but like, what's the experience being had on the other side and could they be having a better experience of, you know, with the right person or under the right circumstances that maybe is just a conversation that it doesn't even necessarily mean having to end a contract. It just could be just a conversation sometimes or just a shift in energy and intention.

 

Gina Gomez (19:03)

Right, 100%. I mean, sometimes it could be like assumptions are being made, right? Like, I think this is what the client wants or let's just use that as an example. And then you're taking action based on an assumption, not an agreement. And when we do that, assumptions are where things break down. That's where people are always disappointed. It's because we never verbalized what we were assuming or hoping for or expecting. And so instead we made an assumption instead of an agreement and it fell apart.

Whereas if you just have an honest conversation, you can have a good honest heartfelt conversation without it being weird or combative. And even if it's uncomfortable, you can just start by saying, hey, this is really hard for me because I really care about our relationship. Just start there or start with the way you want people to start that kind of conversation with you, a hard conversation.

 

Rachel Anzalone (19:47)

Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting because what you're talking about requires a level of maturity and relationships that I think don't exist in a lot of places. And in order to create an environment where those types of conversations are happening, we each have to be, I mean, that's the leadership role, right? We have to be the one to instigate it. We have to be the one to create it, whether that's in a relationship with a romantic partner or with a friend or a relationship that's with a client or a contractor or an employee, is there's a maturity to that conversation that is, again, antithetical to the way businesses have been instructed to operate, which is this top-down paternalistic, the person at the top has all the answers and everybody just does what they say. It's a complete change in dynamic in the way that we operate. And it's the only way to do things differently is to be the one to lead that, right?

 

Gina Gomez (20:53)

Well, yes. And if we're and if we are truly leaders who are developing talent, then it is our jobs to also empower those people and teach them. And we're the ones making all the decisions and we're the ones giving all the directives, then we are not empowering or teaching them. What we're doing is we're modeling an unhealthy example of what what we've been taught leadership looks like. But to me, that's not real. It's a form of leadership, but it's not, I don't think it's the most effective form of leadership.

 

Rachel Anzalone (21:31)

No, I totally agree. And I think it's what we're evolving away from. And I think that's why there's sort of a lot of this chaos and discomfort is that we are evolving out of that. And there are people who are leading in the ways that we're describing. I also think it's part of the reason for sort of the breakdown of the guru model.

 

Gina Gomez (21:52)

Yes. Yeah. And I think when we start to look at leaders as humans, just like our parents, right? We see our parents and it's like, my parents could do no wrong. And then they do something when we're old enough to understand and we're like, wait, what just happened? Who are... 

 

Rachel Anzalone (22:08)

Yeah.

 

Gina Gomez (22:20)

So I think it's the same thing with leadership where we have to understand that just because someone's in a leadership role doesn't mean that they are perfect or that they have all the answers or that they are not going to make mistakes. And I think that is part of, one of my favorite parts about leadership is being able to not just adapt to different types of leadership in different situations, but also to take responsibility for what's mine. And it's not a thing of like, let me think of all the ways I messed up, but it helps me when I see like, where did I miss the mark or where could I have done better or was there something that I missed? 

And when I can do that, I feel lot better because I feel, one, I feel in control, for one thing, and two, I can control the next step from that, which makes me feel better and I can show up as a better leader because I'm learning from it.

 

Rachel Anzalone (23:08)

And it allows you to make decisions from an intention and a choice moving forward versus being on defense, waiting for somebody to point out to you what you did wrong or like trying to hide it in some way, right? Yeah.

 

Gina Gomez (23:19)

Right. Right. Right.

And I find it makes it a much different and more open culture for the team because then the team feels safer when they're sharing or they feel challenges or even when they want to celebrate something. It shifts things because the level of support is different. And I like to look at, I remember this years ago in my corporate job where I had somebody who was on my team who directly reported to me and made a really costly mistake for the company. Really, really costly. Like grounds for termination costly. And she walked into my office and I saw the look on her face and she sat and I'm only, I wasn't laughing then, but I'm laughing now. And she sat down and I was like, she thinks I'm going to fire her. She, I could tell, she thinks I'm going to fire her. And I looked at her and I said, how are you doing? And she just started sobbing. 

And I said, so just gonna ask you one question. I said, do you think you'll ever make that mistake again? And she goes, I would never make that, like instantly stop crying. I would never make that mistake again. And I said, okay, then get out of my office and get back to work. Because she finished herself, I don't even know what was going on in her head, but I knew it was a thousand times worse than anything I could have said to her, but never would have said to her. But it was also like, what's the good and saying, okay, well, I know this is hard for you. So now let me just make it a little harder. 

 

Rachel Anzalone (24:37)

Yeah.

Right, what are you actually accomplishing with that? Yeah. Yeah.

 

Gina Gomez (24:47)

Right, right, right. And it never happened again. Never happened again.

 

Rachel Anzalone (24:51)

Yeah. So all of this, I think, leads beautifully into kind of our topic today, which is emergent strategy and this idea of being adaptable and making choices and making decisions as things evolve around you versus having, you know, this sort of mapped out plan and I'm going to follow this no matter what. 

So at first, I'm curious how, how would you define emergent strategy in the context of business?

 

Gina Gomez (25:23)

That's such a good question. I'm trying to think of where I want to go with it. So I think about it from the place of having like, I think of like the acronym or the word ACEs, because you have a winning strategy, right? So the A would be like, you have to be willing to be adaptable, right? So adaptability is the most important thing. Creativity, like creating space and room for creativity and encouraging that is really important. And then understanding and agreeing to things evolving, right? So we can set a plan. I think about this whenever I'm doing like annual business planning with clients. Or it's like, you can set the 12 month plan, but just because you set the 12 month plan, it doesn't mean that's the way it's gonna go. It's just like the weather, right? You can plan for the weather for the year, but chances are you're gonna get some of the days and some of the months not quite exactly the way you want it. So once you start to see that things start to shift, then you can stay with the plan and see how it goes.

But when it comes to emergent strategy, you want to see what's coming up. And that's where the adaptability, the creativity, the evolution, and the strategy comes into place. Cause then you can shift strategy. 

So if you're noticing month after month that you're coming in 20% lower than your forecasted numbers for the year, why would you wait until the end of the year or just be, and I've seen this happen over and over. And I think it's just a learning thing where people go, well, I'm not going to hit my numbers. And I'm like, it's March. No. No, no, no, that's not what we're doing here. That's not what we're doing here. And then when they can start to understand like, oh, wait, so I can make different decisions, but I don't know what those decisions are. Well, tell me what's going on and let's come up with the right plan, not the next plan.

 

Rachel Anzalone (27:09)

Yeah, oh my God, that's so, so good. I remember a specific moment where I was supporting a company, and the CFO, this was in early January and the CFO presented the forecast for the year and said, so we're going to lose $750,000 this year. And I was like, no, no, we're not. Wait, what are you talking about?

 

Gina Gomez (27:30)

Maybe you are, but I am other-

 

Rachel Anzalone (27:32)

I know, it's like, we're going to figure out how to not lose $750,000 this year. We're going to work this out.

Curious, is your introduction to the concept of emergent strategy, did you learn that in business school or did you pick that up in recent years from the social justice world and DEI and all of that?

 

Gina Gomez (27:53)

Well, that's a great question. No, I actually learned it early on. So early on in my corporate career, I worked with private sector unions, half Hartley unions. And so if you want to really understand emergent strategy, work with people who are in elected positions. So these people were like, there was usually a board. So there were, there's equal representation of management people. So think of like a board of directors with 12 people. So six of those people would be management. And then six of those people would be union people that were union leaders in their roles. And each one of those people, they were elected. 

So the decisions that they made impacted whether or not their membership would be happy, the union members, and it would indicate how they voted going forward. So if you were making decisions that they were not happy with, you get voted out, you would lose your job, you'd go back to the job you had before you became a leadership position. 

So I had to learn, I didn't know it like back then it wasn't called emergent strategy. It was just strategy. So it was like, things are changing. Then you got to change. So I learned adaptability very quickly, very, very quickly. Cause you have to learn it in order to survive in that kind of environment. And then when I started seeing on the DEI side and things were shifting differently than what I had been taught throughout my corporate career, then it was like, oh wait a minute. I understand what this is. It's just different, like it's applying the tools in a different way. 

So I think that's why I was, I think it's such an interesting way to answer the question. But yeah, I learned it a long time ago.

 

Rachel Anzalone (29:28)

Yeah, I think it's fantastic. I think when I sort of my introduction to the concept of emergent strategy was in Adrienne Marie Brown's book, which I probably read and maybe in 2020. And it was one of those experiences of a reading it and feeling this like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, of course. And then this applies to everything else, right? 

This applies to the choices we make on a daily business for ourselves, this applies to our business operations, to everything that we're doing, if we're listening to ourselves and we're following our intuition and we're allowing for things to evolve instead of sticking to a regimented plan. 

Which was one of the things that I, and I know so many of my clients have struggled with is this the sort of business coaching, business strategy that's very like, pick your goal and then go get that goal, right? And so in the context of business and emergent strategy, looking at intentional planning or planning with intentions versus planning with like a goal in mind, would you talk a little bit about that and how you incorporate that into your work?

 

Gina Gomez (30:53)

Sure. Usually what I do is I'll, let's say I'm working with a client and I ask them, you know, like, what's your end game? I always like to ask people what their end game is because what I used to find when I first started, um, in this coaching world was a lot of people would say, I want to be, I want to be on Oprah Super Soul Sunday. That's what everybody wanted at the time. 

And I was like, oh, you want to be famous. That's not what I do. But if you want to do this, this thing that you're talking about that you want to talk about, then let's focus on that. So it wouldn't necessarily be a thing of, okay, you want to talk about your thought leadership is on integrity and you want to get on Oprah Super Soul Sunday and that's your end goal. 

It wouldn't be like, okay, so let's create the plan to get you on Super Soul Sunday. It would be, let's take a step back. What do we need to do first? We need to establish you as a thought leader. But before we do that, where are we starting? Right? Because people are very quick, and I understand this because I've been in this position too. When people say, what do you want? We go to what we want, but we don't necessarily stop to go, am I ready for what I want? Am I qualified for what I want? Do I have the setup for what I want? So that's why I like to take a step back. And then, and then say, so what do we need to do here first? 

So what I find a lot of times, not all the time, but a lot of times when I'm working with a newer client, what will come up first is all the leadership stuff, like all the limitations. So it's like, we cannot focus on, on getting you to seven figures until we figure out what's going on here and why, why you haven't been able to get there sooner. What's going on? 

So that's how I tend to do it is instead of going, what's, what's, and we always keep the end goal in mind, but we're not going to just chase the goal. We're going to look at what are the things you want to create in order. So when you, when you're on Super Soul Sunday and she's asking you, tell me about your life. Tell me about what you do outside of business. What's your answer? When people ask how, how do you, or she asked, how do you lead? What's your answer? Those are the things we need to create.

 

Rachel Anzalone (33:11)

Yeah, absolutely. 

What do you find, do you, have you noticed that people tend to be very black and white in terms of like, it's either all structure or I'm throwing out all the structure and I'm just completely winging it?

Gina Gomez (33:29)

Yes, I find, this is what I find, and it's funny you say that, because it is pretty extreme. I find that people either show up very, very adaptable, where it's like, I am your clay, you do whatever you want with me, and I'm like, this is great, but I need some decisions from you. I need some advice from you, because I can turn you into an ashtray. 

 

Rachel Anzalone (33:49)

Yeah. Well, that comes back to the, just tell me what to do and I'll do it versus, yeah. Yeah.

 

Gina Gomez (33:58)

Yeah, and I don't, it's not my business. And I don't live with the consequences of the decisions you make, you do. So I need you to tell me what you want. And then sometimes I'll get people, I don't see this so much anymore. But I used to get people who'd say, well, so-and-so says I should do it this way. And it was like, if that's what you want to subscribe to, that is totally fine. Cause everyone has their own style, but that's not what I do. So I suggest you find somebody who is going to be a better fit for you if that's what you really want. 

But what I find is a lot of times it's not that that's what people want or don't want. They don't know that they have options because they're listening to a limited number of people who teach things a certain way. And so they think that is the way. And so I like to encourage people like listen to lots of different types of people. Listen to people who are more process oriented. Listen to people who are more intuitive. Listen to people who are more people focused so that you can figure out like what is your recipe? What percentage of people focus are you? What percentage of profit are you? What percentage of operations are you? Because it also tells you a lot about yourself and your leadership style and what's really important to you.

 

Rachel Anzalone (35:08)

Yeah, and it plays with sort of back to the idea of paternalistic coaching, paternalistic management and leadership versus trusting that people have the answer for themselves in some capacity. And that doesn't mean you should know everything.

And I think that's what happens a lot when people end up just winging things. They're like, well, I have the answer inside me. And the answer inside me said, do this. Well, that part of you doesn't know anything about how a business operates. So maybe you should learn a little bit about you know, a little bit of the structure so that you can gauge what's a good decision and what's not. But they have to trust themselves.

 

Gina Gomez (35:53)

That's 100% it. And that is why when you have values and you stick to those things, it does help build self-trust. When you're learning from different people so that you can understand what you really resonate with, that also builds self-trust. So if you're somebody who leans into intuition and then you're like, well, I do exactly what this person is doing and this person makes billions of dollars. Okay, well, that's something you can pay attention to. But if you're listening to someone where you're like, I do all those things and none of this is happening for me. That's something to pay attention to as well.

 

Rachel Anzalone (36:26)

Yeah, or I do all those things and it feels gross. Like it feels yucky to me. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Gina Gomez (36:30)

Yes. Yeah.

And that's where I think understanding your values and what's important to you is also like, I, I joke about this, but there's a lot of truth to it. So when it comes to sales, I used to run sales teams. So I did was I built really successful sales teams. It is not my favorite thing to do, but here's why, because I don't like to feel slick. I don't like to put pressure on people. I don't like to feel like you're nothing but a number to me. And I have to close you by the end of our conversation.

So I approach sales from a very different perspective where it's like, I am going to give you all the information and I'm going to write it in a way where it makes sense for you to understand exactly what I'm offering you. And if this works for you, you're going to know because I did a good job making sure that you understand the value and what you're getting. If it's a no, it's because it's really a no for you and that's okay. But I want you to make the decision because it's your money and I want you to feel confident in investing in me. Because if you don't feel confident, that's going to affect your results.

 

Rachel Anzalone (37:33)

Yeah, I think one of the most interesting things about investing in someone, investing in learning sales from someone is that you need to watch what that person's sales process is and how you feel in it. Because if you're feeling pressured, if you're feeling, you know, if it feels really slick and shiny and you're like, but they're the expert and they know how to do this. So I have to learn it from them and in the meantime it feels kind of yucky to you, then what you're setting yourself up for is learning how to do business in a way that doesn't align for you. 

Whereas, you know, the very first high ticket coaching offer that I ever bought, like I had the conversation with the woman, she presented it to me in like a very clear way, and I wasn't ready. And I told her, I'm not ready for this right now. And she said, great, when you're ready, let me know.

And a year later, I emailed her and I said, I'm ready now. And she said, great, here's your invoice. Like there was no, it was so simple and so clean and so easy. And it was, you know, if she had pressured me into doing it a year earlier, I would have felt stretched, overextended, like I wasted the money because I wasn't ready for it yet. And she would have made the sale. So like from a business owner perspective, she would have been like, great, I made an extra, you know, six grand, you know, but, but the long-term consequence would be that I wouldn't be talking about her and referring other people to her. 

 

Gina Gomez (39:01)

100%. And I've certainly been in situations where I've even said to somebody, look, I think you're great. I would love to help you. I don't think you're ready to do this yet because it is, because I've had this happen if it let's just say it's a financial thing. And I've said to someone, if you make this investment, what we're going to do is we're going to spend the majority of the time working on your money mindset stuff because you're so worked out about spending the money. And I would rather that you take a portion of that money and invest it in a book or program so that you can be in the right space and then when you are ready, come back to me and then we'll talk. 

And I've had people say, you told a friend, a friend of mine this, that's how I knew you were the right person. You told me that that's how I knew and that's why I came back. I saw you on a or heard you on a podcast and you talk about that. And I knew one day I would be ready and then I came to you because now I'm ready. 

You never know who's listening and who's ready and what they're listening for. Or they may not be the person, but they may be the person that sends you five people. 

But this, and this is why it's so important to be clear on how you want to show up, how you want to sell, what kind of impact you want to make with your community and your buyers and how you want them to also experience you.

 

Rachel Anzalone (40:16)

Yeah, and all of those kind of just back to the emergent strategy, you know, all of those micro decisions then have an impact on the bigger picture of your business, right? Like every, all of those small choices, those small changes ultimately have a long-term effect, even if they might seem inconsequential in the moment.

 

Gina Gomez (40:37)

100%. And I think, you know, like, I even think about, and this is one of the things I love so much about emerging strategy is when you're moving along in your business and then all of sudden you go, something's off. It's so much fun for me. It sounds so weird, but it is. It's so much fun. Something's off. And then it's like, oh I'm going on a little adventure because I'm going to go figure out what's off. And then when I get really excited is when I start to see trends where it's like, oh it's not. So let's just say I'm thinking it's our sales. And then I go, it's not our sales. The timing of when we offer this never works because every time we offer it in May, as an example, it never sells, but it always sells. So why are we selling something in May that never sells when our sales history shows us this is when we actually sell? 

To me, it's so much fun because it's like information is knowledge. Now I can do something about it. But when I don't know and something just feels off and I'm pretending like it doesn't feel off or I'm going to pay somebody else or I'm going to sign up for a course to see if I can manifest it away.

Rachel Anzalone (41:44)

Or a different funnel's gonna make it work or whatever it is.

 

Gina Gomez (42:05)

Or going to pull cards or whatever it is. And there's nothing wrong with doing any of those things. But if you only rely on those things, you're relying on limited information. When you start to look at what the patterns are and pulling like what the trends are, you can come up with some really extraordinary ideas that can get you much more than you ever anticipated when you first had the idea.

 

Rachel Anzalone (42:14)

Yeah. And then there's that element of trust and trusting the timing and detaching from that game plan. The number of times I've seen somebody come to me and they're like, here's the plan to this dollar amount that ex-coach worked it out with me and I need to sell so many units of this and I'm going to deliver it twice a year and the marketing campaign, all the details. And then to your point, well, what if it's not selling in May?

Now, what do you do? Do you keep trying and keep trying, even though for some reason it's not working? Or do you step back and allow for an evolution to happen, a change in the way you approach it, a change in the timing, and then just trusting that you're going to get to that goal or that intention in the best way and not fall into the trap of like, well, I said I'm going to hit a million dollars this year, so I have to sell this and I have to, right?

 

Gina Gomez (43:13)

Right.

But then things happen like a pandemic. It goes, how's that plan working out for you?

 

Rachel Anzalone (43:18)

Yeah, yep.

Right.

 

Gina Gomez (43:25)

And I think that's why it caused so much panic with so many people because they didn't know there was another option. They didn't know how to pivot or all of a sudden the panic was in because it was like, I got to figure out this, not just how to pivot, but what am I pivoting to? So there was a lot of panic with a lot of people. 

And then what I saw with people who had experience with emergent strategy was like, okay, so things are changing. What are we going to change? It was very very interesting to watch. And what was also really cool was watching how people adapted and succeeded.

 

Rachel Anzalone (43:59)

Yeah, yeah, because there were so many people who succeeded incredibly during that time period and did some really cool stuff that wouldn't have come to life otherwise. 

So one of the things that in an interview I listened to with you that one of your clients said, she described you as facilitating a transformation, metaphysical transformation. 

And so back to this kind of topic of the inner work versus the outer work. You don't have to share any specifics of your own, but what are some of the pathways or the questions, lines of questioning that you ask in order to help people with that inner transformation versus just looking at the practical and tactical strategy?

 

Gina Gomez (44:32)

I love this question. So I've been really fortunate to work with a lot of non-traditional business leaders. I've worked with traditional business leaders, but what I found was, and it was the weirdest thing, but it was also really cool, was early on in my business, I had a lot of psychics that would come to me and say, I'd like to hire you. And I'd be like, oh, you're so nice. I don't work with psychics. And they'd be like, no, I want to hire you. And I'd be like, no, no one will take me seriously. That was my stuff. No one will take me seriously if I work with people who use their intuition. I was doing it all the time. I just didn't talk about it. And so finally, I was working, I had somebody who said, you need to come up with a price that makes it okay to work with people like me. Cause I've decided you're the one I want to work with. And it was like, maybe I need to think about this differently. So as I was working with a lot of healers and a lot of people who worked in metaphysical types of jobs or roles, what I also learned was, teaching them traditional business strategies was never going to work. Because they were just like, I don't know what language you're speaking, but that's not how I live my life.  And it was just really hard to try to like, I didn't realize I was trying to put people in a box, but I was trying to put people in a box because it felt like it was like having structure would make it safer. 

So that was part of also the emergent strategy was also realizing like, no, you can't do it this way. There's another way to help people get a better result. So what I would find is if I would ask a question like, I would say, okay, so here's something we could talk about, here's something we could work on. And then I would propose an idea and I would watch the body language. Cause I tend to do things. And even if I'm not on camera, if I'm listening, I will listen for what's the response. Do I hear, like if somebody clears their throat, that means something to me. If somebody responds immediately, that means something to me. So what I started to notice was when I would ask these questions they would start to pay attention differently. 

So I would ask things like, when I say that, how does that land? And it was fascinating because people go, I love that question. And I'd be like, good, I'm getting somewhere. And then it'd be like, it feels really good. Or oh when you first said it, it felt really uncomfortable. But now as I'm thinking about it, I feel different. And it will tell me what that feels like. 

Or asking somebody when we're talking about this, what are you feeling in your body and where are you feeling it? And if someone says, I'm feeling it in my solar plexus, well, I know that's a power center. And so it's like, okay, so I'm to ask a question about confidence. And then I might say something like, hey, so has this pattern occurred for you somewhere else in your life, even if it's outside of business? So that's where we start to get into more of the personal things. Or a lot of times what happens, cause I work so closely with my clients, we naturally start to develop a personal relationship and someone will tell me something about their upbringing. And what I hear is I'm like, that's why they do da da da da. Cause that's what that means for them. Or that's why this is so important because that had that impact. 

And so it helps me better meet my clients where they are. And it makes it safer for me to ask, not just ask the question, but for them to answer like, hey, is that something you want to work on?

 

Rachel Anzalone (48:09)

Mmm.

Gina Gomez (48:10)

Right? So it might be something. And I remember this once, being with a client and we were talking and she just kept saying, can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. And finally I said, okay, I'm going to stop for a second. I'm going to ask a question. And she said, okay. And I said, who told you you couldn't be successful? And she stopped. And I was like, God, she's going to like, she's going to be upset. This is bad. This is really bad. And she started crying. And then she answered the question.

We had a whole session on that. It had nothing to do with business, but that was something that was really helping, sorry, hurting her and hindering her from being able to be successful because she really believed that she couldn't be, because she believed when that person told her that she couldn't, that she really couldn't. 

 

Rachel Anzalone (48:56)

Mmm.

 

Gina Gomez (49:07)

For me, that's part of the fun in the work is being able to teach people and help people see that those things don't define them. It doesn't define what the rest of their life is gonna look like if that's not what they want, that they can have all the things that they want, but it may look differently than what they thought it was gonna be. It may look a whole lot better, right? And that it's okay. It's okay to have your stuff. It's okay to have your wounds. It's okay to choose to overcome them and to heal them. And I'm a big believer that when it comes up, it's because it's like, hey, there's a wound here, would you like to heal it? And if the answer is no, I would not. It's like, okay, well, I'll be back.

 

Rachel Anzalone (49:43)

Yeah. What's interesting, does this sound familiar, that often when people get to the heart of whatever that sort of the story is that's kind of holding them back, there can be, there's the realization that the goal they were going after isn't actually what they want, that the goal was based on…

 

Gina Gomez (50:02)

I would say more times than not, it changes what they're chasing. 100%, yeah. Yeah, and it's so fascinating, right? And I've even had that experience. I don't know about you. Where it's like, I mean, I remember there was a time when I was chasing a number. Like, that's the number, that's the number, that's the number. And then one day I was like, why is that the number? It was so dumb. It's like, why is that the number? And I was like, well, I like that number.

 

Rachel Anzalone (50:07)

Yeah, yeah. Oh for sure. Yeah.

Because at one point somebody said you need to pick a number, right?

 

Gina Gomez (50:33)

Yeah, yeah. And then I started, and I was like, but is that what I, is that what I actually want? And then it was like, no, what I want is this and this. And then it was like, so what does that have to do with the numbers? It was like, it has nothing to do with the number. So I was thinking about something that didn't even matter to me. And I was putting a lot of hours towards that thing that didn't really matter to me. 

But I think also that is part of our jobs and part of the opportunity with us as leaders and advisors and coaches and strategists, however we want to define ourselves, that when we're also learning and in touch with ourselves and looking at where our wounds are, it can help us show up better and stronger and differently for our clients and also show them like, here's what I've worked through. It also shows that we have our flaws, which also makes it safer for them. Because I think a lot of times what happens is they want us, they, we all want approval as much as I hate to admit that. People look for approval. And so I think they even want that from us sometimes. 

And so I, I always try to remind my clients like, listen, I can tell you that I'm proud of you. You don't need my approval. I am proud of you because you were doing, like, this is hard work. And I think we underestimate and undervalue how hard it is to run a business and stay in a business and make the hard decisions every single day. And people are like, good for you that you're chasing your dream, right? And then we can imagine that thing that I said at the beginning of, yeah, but in my dream, I was making money.

 

Rachel Anzalone (51:51)

Yeah. And to kind of wrap that up, it aligns so beautifully with my satisfaction strategy approach, which is like, you have to know what your values are. You have to know what the impact is that you want to have. And you have to figure out what the revenue, the profitability is that's going to allow you to accomplish all of that.

Gina Gomez (52:16)

Great. Yep.

 

Rachel Anzalone (52:22)

And then that's what you focus on, not I want to build a million dollar business and then I'll be able to do all these other things, right? Kind of the reverse of what so many of us have been taught.

 

Gina Gomez (52:26)

Right, right.

And also asking yourself if you're willing to do the things that it takes in order to be that kind of business, right? So if I said, I want to be an eight figure business, but I'm not willing to work more than half day, three days a week, I only want maybe one or two, no, I'm not going to work with any private clients. Like you can do that, but at what cost?

 

Rachel Anzalone (52:37)

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's such a good point. I think it seems like I'm having that conversation fairly often where it's like the goal is, for example, a seven figure business. And then in the conversation around how to get to that seven figures with the business that they have and the work they want to do, then that means having a team and having a lot of systems and having, you know, there's just a lot to manage versus them being able to just show up and do the work. And the profitability, what they take home at the end of the day on that seven figure business may actually be less than if they were just happy to have their business do 250,000 and they had one part-time BA.

 

Gina Gomez (53:44)

Right. And I know some coaches who are like, I could have a seven to eight figure business, but I don't want all that extra responsibility. So I'm going to make half a million and I keep it and I just hire project based people when I need it. And I'm like, you know what, good for you. Cause you're clear on what you want.

Rachel Anzalone (54:02)

Sounds great.

 

Gina Gomez (54:10)

Yeah. Yeah. There's no, what's the problem in that, right? And yet there are other people who do want to have big teams and they do want to create change in a different way. And I think that's great too. 

That's why I think what's so great about this is that there's more than one way to get to an end goal. It's figuring out what's the right way for you and making sure that you understand that there is more than one way and that you don't have to just choose one and stay in it and be miserable because that's the one that you chose. You still get to make some decisions and have some flexibility. And if you don't do that, then you are setting yourself up for a pretty miserable experience.

 

Rachel Anzalone (54:42)

Yeah. So what's your goal for the impact that you want to have with your business?

 

Gina Gomez (54:48)

Oh gosh, you know, it's definitely changed since I started my business. But the one thing that's always been a through line for me is I've always wanted to do something where I, whether it's directly or indirectly, but I want to create a lot of opportunity for people who don't usually get opportunity. As a woman of color, as a woman, you know, I've seen and experienced lots of different things, just like lots of other people have.

And that is something that is so important to me that everyone gets a fair shot and that everyone can create the life and live the life that they really want to live. So that's, that's my thing. So one thing, one thing I've always had as a dream is to create something like a, like a campus, like a physical campus with lots of established businesses, like retailers and different types of, you know, like small businesses, midsize, where they all agree to offer internships for people who want to go into entrepreneurship or people that are coming out of school and don't get opportunities or foster kids when they age out, they don't get job training. Something like that where companies are sponsoring and willing to train people from different demographics that don't get the opportunities and they can get job skills and they can either stay within those companies or they can go to other companies. But anything that creates jobs and opportunity for people, that's what I'd like to be a part of.

 

Rachel Anzalone (56:05)

That's really a beautiful vision. And we'll all hold that for you for sure. Thank you so much for being here. 

 

Gina Gomez (56:14)

Well, thank you. I'm not going anywhere. We're just going to stay and keep talking all day.

 

Rachel Anzalone (56:18)

I know, I'm like, well, we could keep going again for hours. 

How can people find you and connect with you?

 

Gina Gomez (56:26)

Well, they can find me at www.aristamanagementgroup.com. And here's what I would love to do because I'm such a people person and I love interacting with people. So if you're interested in connecting with me, send me, go to our website, go to our contact page, send me an email and ask me your business question or tell me what you're working on and I will give you some personal advice or a recommendation. And then we'll add you to our mailing list so you can keep up on what's happening with Arista.

 

Rachel Anzalone (56:54)

That is an incredible offer. Really generous.

 

Gina Gomez (56:57)

Well, I'm very excited too. It's just so fun for me when someone's like, here's where I'm stuck. Well, have you tried this or here's something like that? I love it. I feel very lucky and fortunate and grateful to have a job that I really, really love. If you would have told me this is the job that I would do and I would love, I'd be like, I'm never going to do that. But it's exactly what I was meant to do.

 

Rachel Anzalone (57:03)

Yeah, yeah.

I love it, that's awesome. Thank you again, thank you so much for being here. And thank you all for listening. Until next time, remember that your pleasure is your power. Take care.